The premise for this series is simple, I'll take a popular or semi-viral interview that's on the long side and distill some key concepts with my signature commentary to give you a better sense of what is happening in the vast ocean that is podcasting.
Who is involved?
Michael Knowles (@MichaelJKnowles) hosted H. Pearl Davis (@PearlyThings) on The Michael Knowles Show to discuss modern questions surrounding dating, marriage, divorce, and the choices men and women should make. The 2.5 hour conversation follows the musings of Pearl, who broadly falls into a modern “red pill” camp contrasted with Knowles’ Traditional Catholic perspective.
Pearl’s position
For Pearl, modern Marriage is a feminist institution whereby the women have all the benefits and the men have only costs. Broadly interpreting her statements, she does not think men should marry (but they should make their own decisions) because if you enter into a marriage contract as a man you will lose when your wife chooses to divorce you. Pearl often spoke of an “average man” and pointed to many horror stories of divorce and her experience talking to younger women who either don’t want marriage or aren’t “worthy” of being wives.
For Pearl, a worthy wife doesn’t have tattoos, isn’t overweight, and submits to her future husband while also having a low “body count.” For Pearl, everyone is responsible for their actions, and she doesn’t understand why when having a conversation about dating the faults of men should be brought up with the faults of women.
Some tactics Pearl suggests is for men to abstain from voting until a political party picked up the mantle of “men’s rights”, mandatory DNA testing for children to confirm paternity, and for women to get on the treadmill so-as to be more desirable to men.
Knowles’ position
For Knowles, marriage is an institution in line with our natural dispositions as humans. It is an eternal institution, and while there are clearly problems that face younger people who are trying to date today, it doesn’t mean they should refuse to enter into marriage. Knowles consistently applies the traditional teachings around marriage throughout the conversation and recognizes there are unique problems that arise due to social media and dating apps, but that doesn’t mean men (or women) should run away from building a lasting relationship and welcoming children.
What's the point?
A lot of people will question what skyrocketed Pearl Davis into the spotlight. The likely answer is some combination of being in the right place at the right time and her willingness to say things that provoke a reaction from people. For example, she will often make the remark on social media that women in their twenties are more attractive than women in their thirties.
I’ve written on the pages of Been Awake about the “Red Pill” in a positive light, however this is not to say there are some severe side effects that can come from it’s intellectual consumption. The school of cultural red pills - specifically around dating and marriage that Pearl finds herself as spokeswoman for are fraught with fragmented thinking.
The roots can be found in the “Men’s rights movement” and “MGTOW” internet cultures which is short for “Men going their own way.” The idea of Men’s Rights is clearly a reaction to the successful Women’s rights movement. It applies the same lens used by feminists to issues that are viewed as uniquely facing men. The most concrete of these concerns are the problems faced by fathers and husbands in the divorce process. From here it spins out to lesser and lesser issues that do not have as firm a foundation. MGTOW is a more radical subset of this sub-culture which states that men should abandon institutions like marriage and find their purpose in life without women.
Throughout the conversation, Knowles gently tries to lead Pearl to more reasoned conclusions, and gives her plenty of space to state her position which leads to many contradictory and controversial statements throughout the conversation. The “red pill” types see themselves as contrasting conservative positions by saying they see the world as it whereas Knowles and others at the Daily Wire will make blanket statements like “get married young” without considering the consequences.
The Better Sensemaking
There are a few things not explicitly addressed in the interview that would have led to a more interesting place. While there were interesting moments, there were also long stretches of Pearl being unable to counter an argument presented by Knowles and reasserting her original position in the face of a differing position. This theme underlies my underlying critique of the cultural red pill types writ large. This is to say, they only pick data to suit their ideology and castigate tradition. For example, the 50% divorce rate in the USA is cited as a problem, but when it’s pointed out even basic religiosity lowers that by 10-20% depending on the study is still seen as a condemnation of marriage. Pearl also spent a great deal of time claiming everyone is ultimately responsible for their decision while completely denying that culture has an effect on behavior. Such a low-resolution image of human nature leads to some pretty start conclusions that are not in line with health or long term fulfillment.
It is the case that hypergamy is real, men tend to date across and down their social/cultural status and women tend to date across and up. The introduction of social media apps and a general cultural trend away from glorifying marriage has maximized this natural instinct. Pearl constantly referenced the “average” man and his plight while simultaneously saying there weren’t enough eligible women to be taken as wives. The hard truth is that in an increasingly complicated world - average isn’t good enough. Knowles tended to deflect from this position so-as to push the philosophical angle, but it’s worth stating that there is parity between the sexes when it comes to obesity. Yes, there are cancerous ideologies that infect the minds of women, but so too with men. The obvious reason both should be discussed is because when it comes to dating and relationships both men and women are involved.
Polygyny is a natural state of man as beast. In a culture that does not value marriage (committed monogamy) women will compete for the attention and affection of the most powerful men. The problem with the “red pill” school of thought is that they pour gasoline on a burning fire and claim they have no other choice. By only highlighting the perils of divorce, and not teaching the skills necessary to properly discern the life path and skills that attracts a mate capable of long-term pair bonding will further enrage an already aggregated sea of “average” men. Which works out to the benefit of commenters like Pearl as they will look to her as a safe matronly figure that comforts them instead of pushing them to reach potential.
There is always more to say about issues like this, but I would caution anyone who has read this far not to fall victim to the reactionary trend of manosphere red-pill “philosophy.” It’s as ideologically stilted as its feminist mirror.